What conditioning is there without thought?

More recent notes appear after this note.
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Can a ‘seeker’ hold up his/her beliefs against the sword of truth – or even be willing to?
In this immediate presence, there is knowing – knowing is ‘happening’.  It is undeniable. Yet it is not an event in time.  This presence is the knowing – the knowing is this presence – not 2.
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The notion of ‘time’ or duration appears upon the essence of knowing.  Mind is time – mind is appearance.
Many bring up a believed in ‘reason’ as to why they are not ‘ready’ to be free or to see that they are already free.   Of course, that is natural because belief stands in the way.
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Belief must be investigated, otherwise it will rule you like a Mean King.
Usually a ‘seeker’, as if there could be such a thing, expresses their doubts by speaking of ‘others’ who need to be ripe or whatever the concept is.   It is too raw to I say “I am not ripe”.   Well we are not talking about fruit here.  Your true essence is not some piece of fruit waiting to fall from a tree.
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Belief in past conditioning seems to be the culprit.  Conditioning is held up as a ‘reason’ for not being ready.  “Well, it is because I had a rough childhood” etc….
Well, let’s look at this closely.
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What conditioning is there if you do not think about it?
Don’t dismiss this suggested investigation and don’t imagine it is just rhetoric.  Don’t rush off in the mind with more ruminating about it either.
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Without thought, you cannot say that there is any conditioning?
Really look and see.

So in this immediacy of knowing, ‘we’ postulate a ‘time’ when there was ‘no knowing’ (ignorance) or that some conditioning obscures the knowing, or whatever the details of the concept are.
Now, you cannot live a moment ago. You cannot live a moment in the future.
You can recall the past, only because of KNOWING now.
The immediate presence is this immediate activity of knowing, which is timeless.
Any memory, any memory at all, can only appear in this present knowing, this immediate presence.
‘When we say that ‘certain events happened’ the knowing was (is) there.
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ALL impressions register in the knowing. There are no impressions of the future, because they have not ‘happened’ yet.
In fact….. Everything is Potentiality – but we cannot ‘see’ that.   Reality is not an appearance.

Predictions and anticipations are mind projections in this present – in this knowing presence.
Now, isn’t it curious that in this knowing presence, ‘we’ postulate a ‘time’ when there was ‘no knowing’.  If you really examine these concepts, it may well reveal that it is all ‘stories’ appearing in this immediate presence – this immediate knowing right now.  There is no other time.
All there is, is knowing.
Recognizing the clear and obvious nature of THIS is beyond the realm of concepts.
Are ‘we’ so addicted to concepts that this obviousness of presence awareness has become a stranger to ‘us’?

Now, you cannot live a moment ago. You cannot live a moment in the future. You can recall the past, only because of KNOWING. Knowing is timeless. Any memory can only arise in this knowing, this immediate presence.  Thoughts spontaneously appear without ‘you’ choosing them.   Concepts about ‘free will’ are common and it is an erroneous belief.   If you had free will WHY on earth would you choose to be unhappy?

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Mind is time.  Is there a PAST other than a concept of past appearing now?

‘When’ certain events ‘happened’ the knowing was (is) there. The impressions register in the knowing. (Hang on, I read this a moment ago – well, maybe you did but did you ‘hear it’ really?)  There are no impressions of the future, because they have not happened yet. Predictions and anticipations are mind projections in this present – in this knowing presence. Now, isn’t it curious that in this knowing presence, ‘we’ postulate a ‘time’ when there was ‘no knowing’. If you really examine these concepts, it may well reveal that it is all ‘stories’ appearing in THIS presence – this KNOWING.

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All there is, is this immediate knowing.
Recognizing the clear and obvious nature of THIS is beyond the realm of concepts. Are ‘we’ so addicted to concepts that this obviousness of presence awareness has become a stranger to ‘us’?  Of course not – what an absurd concept.

 

Are you catching on to this?  Is this expression here just leaves blowing in the wind?

39 Comments
  1. Some deluded souls may think that I am am obsessed with Non Duality. I can assure you that these notes are written quite quickly and most of the day is ‘spent’ without a single thought about ‘this stuff’. Everything is Clear and Obvious just as it is. Thoughts come and go. They too are clear and obvious just as they are. Most ‘seekers’ will avoid any website like this. There just isn’t anything here for the ‘me’. The ‘me’ gets a raw deal on this site. Flocks of deluded seekers crowd around popular gurus and teachers because they get fed bullshit and they LOVE IT. It gives them an endless supply of ‘fodder for the me’. How absurd it all is.

  2. Sri Nisargadatta often told seekers to ponder deeply on the ‘state’ prior to birth. In a similar fashion, deep dreamless sleep is also valid. In either ‘condition’, where is the conditioning(knowledge) of a self or the belief of a self (thought activity)? The ‘slate of consciousness’ is wiped clean every night in sleep. The conditioning can only fire up in the dreaming and waking states. But, the Knowing goes untouched in any ‘state’. The Knowing cannot NOT be present and is the undeniable stateless state, the substratum upon which any ‘thing’ appears on.YOU cannot be any thing other than the Knowing, thinking otherwise is belief, conditioning…
    Obviously the word “Knowing” is a label for this nameless presence. Call this what you want, you are nameless and descriptionless…

  3. via deep dreamless sleep we are also rejuvenated during… perhaps of interest to ponder for ‘people’ who imagine deep dreamless sleep is a black hole.

  4. In a dream many characters appear to be self aware, including your own. Upon awaking it is realized they are appearance only. Awareness or Knowing is always on ‘this’ side of the fence, so to speak. Awareness or Knowing is the actual, the objects that populate it are NOT.
    The continuum of time, the past, present, and future are aspects of consciousness. Without consciousness they immediately cease. In deep dreamless sleep they are no more. They are NOT real in themselves, they are conceptual like time. In the same way “mind is time”.
    The Knowing is NOT time. Upon awaking, mind is alerted to the fact that it had slept by ‘That’ which does not sleep. Neuroscience says that the brain is what alerts you? They say, the brain does not sleep, only certain functions(thought activity) etc. The correlation of brain function and thought is not in dispute here. They are both transitory appearing phenomena in the Knowing and can only be discussed(or debated endlessly) in the waking state(itself a transitory phenomena). What you are in essence is self verifying and obvious. What you are not, can be debated without end…

    • Yes the mind is time. States of mind come and go. The ‘fence’ is the concept of separation. You may long to be on the other side of the fence. It appears that you are separated from what you love. By not loving the apparent self totally, ‘we’ project ‘over the fence’ an ‘object’ which is fabricated and then longed for. You can’t get ‘there’ because you are ‘here’ and you cannot get out of this ‘here’ because this ‘here’ is actually everywhere and there is no actual ‘there’ and no ‘object’ – there is no separation except in the mind – it is a concept that has not been investigated. Simple as that. You are told to investigate that ‘me’ (the sense of me – separation) and the directive is ignored or at least the mind plays games with it, pretends to know via concepts and one fools oneself and calls that ‘self-knowledge’. The ‘cage of belief’ is a fiction. A clear voice can point out that the cage does not exist but like a bird that has been in a cage for many years, when the door is left open, it will not fly out. It is bound into habit. Habit can be broken. Courage is not born of mind. The nature of All phenomena is emptiness.
      You tell your sad story about a me in bondage to yourself and to everyone who will listen. Everyone else looks sad and agrees with your apparent suffering – or they fight to get their story heard, complaining that they can’t get a word in edge-wise. All stories of me, me, me, me, me, me!
      It is very rare to come across one who say “NO – you were never bound – Look, see, investigate – no one can do it for you”.
      Simple. But the mind says “It can’t be that simple”.

  5. Now the average fellow off the street will disagree more or less instantly with this kind of expression in the note. “Of course there is conditioning” he will insist and he is damn sure that there is conditioning. However on close examination one can SEE that there isn’t any at all. This is totally radical from the ordinary point of view – you wont read about it in the Newspaper – it would not sell papers – the reaction would be ‘negative’ and folks would go and get their money back and buy the opposition paper.
    No matter how it appears, no matter how real it feels for the conditioned mind, there is no conditioning without thought about conditioning. Hammering this home is not going to make anyone many friends. It quickly disperses just abut everyone – they get away from this as soon as possible. They might even say it is evil, the devil’s work. Well, there you go – conditioned mind.

  6. a question.

    mind is time.

    okay, is that ALL that mind is?

    broken down into nanomoments, it appears true.

    (and mind a conceptual intrusion on reality)

  7. Without thought, there is no mind. Mind is thought, concepts, ideas, memories and images. Duration is an appearance. It takes time to think. But can you measure the duration of a single thought? When does it start? Get a stop watch and time the length of a thought. Do it.
    The impulse to hit the button on the stopwatch comes from where? To measure something you must be outside of it, beyond it. Can you get out of the ‘now’? Can you measure time? Look at a clock, a mechanism, a chronological instrument. All clocks turn to dust in the timeless duration-less-ness of eternity.

    The thought ‘I am’ is an expression of the timeless essence of existence.

  8. I would like to say…Guru G you use the pointers Be the seing and where are you seeing from, alot, can you say anymore about them

    • I can go on speaking about it for another decade and none of it will capture what it is pointing to. I am speaking about nothing other than the same thing over and over again. I paint Big Arrows pointing at it. Thousands of words pointing from different angles. Oddly enough none of it means much to anyone until a spontaneous recognition ‘happens’. Then it all makes perfect sense but it is no longer required. It is what some call a paradox. Anyway, you want more about it. The function of ‘seeing’ is not being done by you. Even what you ‘look at’ is not a choice made by an entity. See if you can find a ‘seer’ in the ‘place’ where you ‘think’ seeing is happening. Really look and see. If you make this your sole aim it cannot fail. Now, I don’t mean THINK about seeing – don’t get fixated on the idea of seeing. Many do without knowing it. They think that the mind’s chatter is reality. Poor fools. So, if you find something that seems to be a ‘seer’, then ask yourself ‘where am I seeing this ‘seer’ from? Keep going with this ‘investigation’ until no reference point comes up. In that moment there is clear evidence of your true nature.
      The one who is trying to ‘do’ everything is a fiction – yet ‘deeds are done’.
      Jacob, you have been given many pointers. If you do not take an active part in following what they point to – what else can be offered?

  9. Have you noticed how news of this site has spread like wild fire? Ha, as if. Everyone is sucking up to some guru – this is the last place they would like to be found.

  10. I Thought I have been putting in the effort over the last few years but I will make this investigation of the seeing my biggest aim. Psychological suffering has been at the fore a great deal, which has kept me asking for so called help, I am completltly committed to this and i know it must get boring seeing the same old posts getting put up – it is like “sort it out man!” Thanks for the constant pointing and patience really appreciate it. – adios for a while.

    • Jacob it is not as though you have to do anything complicated or difficult. Just take a keen interest in finding out if there is any ‘seer’ or ‘knower’ that has any substance. If it had substance it would be the most prominent thing for ‘you’. But it is all thoughts, memories, images. No one suspects it – because they believe in the feelings of angst and whatever as being what they are. The blinding FACT that everyone seems to miss is that all these things come and go – Now, How on earth can you be something that comes and goes? Contemplate this if it is not clear and obvious. You are here, now. All these states you speak of are memories (apart from whatever state you think you are in right now) they came, they went – but you are here, now. You cannot be anywhere other than here, now. People talk shit about having to live in the now. Actually you cannot get out of the now – never, ever. So, states come and go. If something goes and you are still remaining, How in Hell’s name can you be whatever it was that left? So, in effect ‘people’ punish themselves with memories and transient thoughts about other thoughts and memories and none of it is what they are – can’t be. Never, ever – not possible. Earth quakes happen every minute of the day. Tension builds up and then crunch, shudder, things get shaken up – then there is relief. Sometimes there is a tension that builds up over this ‘stuff’ and when the recognition happens, great relief is sensed – without any need for an explanation.

  11. At times being lost in thinking I heard you Gilbert saying,”you can’t see the wind (awareness),you see the effects of the wind”,etc.
    This to me was an eye-opener.

    Which way the wind is blowing in spreading the…..
    Sure you can trust a devil – he does not need to lie to you!

    As always thank you.

  12. “What conditioning is there without thought?” – “I” can’t think of any…
    Is this not the core insight? To SEE that the ‘self’ or ‘I’ is nothing but a thought construct. Thought cannot SEE thought and in the absence of thought, what Knows or SEES the absence?
    Thought will supply the answer – ‘Me’, ‘Self’, ‘NoSelf’, ‘Awareness’, ‘Knowing’, ‘void’ and whatever etc, etc…. What Knows these answers or any thing for that matter? This Knowing essence is what is being pointed to and you have to SEE for yourself. The Knowing is always upstream from what you think you know…

  13. Jacob it’s not a question of this not being within your capacity, it is clearly within your capacity. The mind is time is a direct pointer…by inquiring into the nature of time, clearly see the whole psychological notion of becoming…becoming free is flawed.

    “Time means moving from what is to “what should be.” I am afraid, but one day I shall be free of fear; therefore, time is necessary to be free of fear, at least, that is what we think. To change from what is to “what should be” involves time. Now, time implies effort in that interval between what is and “what should be.” I don’t like fear, and I am going to make an effort to understand, to analyze, to dissect it, or I am going to discover the cause of it, or I am going to escape totally from it. All this implies effort and effort is what we are used to. We are always in conflict between what is and “what should be.” The “what I should be” is an idea, and the idea is fictitious, it is not “what I am,”which is the Fact….” J. Krishnamurti

    You must start from the Fact you are already That and SEE ‘what gets in the way’, otherwise you are starting from a concept. The ‘way out’ is instantly available not in mind/thought but in Being… hence the pointer just BE the SEEING. There is no becoming is Being, the pure (unbiased) functioning of SEEING is not in time.

  14. I would like to say…so when looking into where the seeing is happening all that can be seen is the seeing I cant find any actual thing that is seeing , so the idea of Jacob does this just invisably appear in this seeing , was the seeing here before the body appeared in it which ive taken to be my identity. Thanks Gurus , id kiss your feet if you were here.

  15. Jacob, what you ARE is not in time. Whatever you think you are is time. The SEEING/KNOWING knows the movement of time. Time does not actually exist, except conceptually. You Know You Are. It takes NO time to Know. So, anything that appears is conceptual. Birth and prior to birth are concepts and so is death! Belief is time. Believing the appearance to be real the actual, is sufferering and bondage. The appearance is real to the extent it is a appearance, but the question is what is it appearing to or on?
    Asking, is there Knowing prior to birth? is like asking is there appearance before appearance or time before time. The very question is born out of time….Knowing does NOT appear.

  16. Hello all, this is my first time posting but I do enjoy reading this blog from time to time. This post is not a response to any particular person or previous post, but just something that really shed some light with me. This stuff is all very simple, it has to be, its simply about being what you already are. Now what is pointed to as ones true nature is just the simple fact of existing and being aware. Everyone knows this and its an immediate recognition of something so obvious in our experience, this existing aware nature that we are just is, its not an attainment, if one were to look into this nature you would find that it has absolutely no objective qualities, yet one can never deny the absolute fact of existing and being aware. Now i’ve had this pointed out several times, i’ve read this so many times, and I think the sticking point for many could be that there is a subtle expectation that once this obvious fact is pointed out (and confirmed by our own direct looking), there is the assumption of having an associated state of some joy or happiness or whatever emotional experience one may assume to be present with this recognition. The reason I bring this up is because for me this surely was a assumption which I had completely overlooked, there would be a subtle sense when i was feeling relatively carefree and joyous that somehow this is ‘more’ clarity than when there was an experience of say sadness or some anxiousness. Only later did I realize that both were only passing emotional states, in both instances the fact of existing and awareness can not be denied, and awareness is not any less aware in say a so called negative state, and existence is no less existent, that fact shines no matter what emotion may arise. If a ‘negative’ emotion appears then at that moment you are just seeing/being that emotion, it will pass and something else will arise. Just see that no matter what arises, you can never deny the FACT of existing and being aware. Also notice that its not even that awareness is one thing over here, and the emotions thoughts or whatever appears as something over ‘there’, they are inseparable, in other words in your own direct experience you can not pin point a place in which the awareness stops and then which ever appearance we are referring to starts, its all one seamless happening. (Ed: yes, well expressed)

  17. I would like to say…really nicely put sunny

  18. For anyone this may help: What is suffering? I think its good to be clear on this point, because when its said to investigate this suffering and resolve it, it does not mean that one will be in some blissed out or joyous state from then on. Suffering is not the emotions, feelings, or thoughts, whether they are what you may label as positive or negative. Rather suffering happens simply because of the belief that those thoughts, feelings are happening to a self center/person/me/I. Now how do we investigate and resolve this. Most people think that its ‘I’ as this body that am suffering these thoughts or feelings. But lets have a look, what is the body exactly in our immediate experience. What we refer to as the body is nothing more then a bunch of tingling sensations. Are any of these sensations ‘I’, that which is concerned or worrying about or trying to fight these thoughts or emotions? Even if you take this a step further and look at your body in the mirror, have a look at your face or any other part of the body, are any of these parts of the body on direct experience concerned or even give a shit what emotion or thought appears? The body is an image and group of sensations, sensations and images dont have opinions, they could care less what appears. So who or what is it that is suffering these thoughts or emotions? Are the emotions trying to get rid of themselves? or are they simply emotions? The only thing which seems to ‘fight’ or resist so called negative experiences is in thought. “I am feeling bad, and thats not right because this says so and so about me” maybe its cause i’m not non dual enough yet lol. But who or what exactly is this ‘I’? we just saw that the ‘I’ cant possibly be the body as its not concerned at all, it doesnt even have that capacity. So what is that “i” thought refering to? If you look in your own direct experience you will find that the “I’ thought doesnt actually refer to anything objective. The only “I’ is that of existence-awareness. Is existence-awareness concerned about what thoughts or feelings appear? is existence-awareness diminished even in the slightest no matter what appears? or is the fact of existence-awarness completely untouched and free, b4 during and after any such expereiences. You are that existence-awareness, not you as an entity, rather existence awareness is the only nature or ‘identity’ present. There are not 2 selves, the existing-aware self, and the ‘I’ or me. Existence is primary and must be ones self, not the “I’ thought, because whehter thinking appears or not, you exist, you are not 2 selves, an existing self, and a thinking self, the thought is not who you are, plain and simple.

    • Yes everything is Clear and Obvious. Some clear comments happening. So obvious and yet it seems that most can’t follow the clear expressions very far before the mind balks and runs off into confusion. Thanks for contributing to the postings with your comments.

  19. I would like to say…Time is a concept. Yesterday, an hour ago, a moment ago does not exist : it exist only as thoughts, souvenir, memories, stories, … Tomorrow, next month, next moment does not exist : it exist as thoughts, devenir, expectations, desires. All happen NOW HERE. When we look for Time, we find nothing.

  20. I would like to say…Time is a concept. Yesterday, an hour ago, a moment ago does not exist : it exist only as thoughts, souvenir, memories, stories, … Tomorrow, next month, next moment does not exist : it exist as thoughts, devenir, expectations, desires. All happen NOW HERE. When we look for Time, we find nothing. How do we expect things to come, how do we expect things to change tomorrow if we know that there is no tomorrow. There is only NOW.

  21. I would like to say…sunny thank you for the post. It is said clearly. A thought cannot do the thinking, a thought has no legs to walk with, a thought has no eyes to see with, a thought has no ears to hear with, … there is no bloody thought; I, you are thoughts, impotent. There is freedom in seeing that the me does not exist in any shape or form.

  22. Tackling the way in which suffering seems to perpetuate itself is very important and benifical, but as always the main point of all this is to resolve this seeking once and for all. In my opinion this can only be done once the pointer is followed, a clear understanding of it has occured and then the pointer is let go of. When it is said that the essence of your nature is that of a knowingness, look into that and see why it is so. When we look at our own direct experience we can see that body sensations, feelings, and thoughts are happening, they are being known or registered by something, thus none of those experiences can be the essence of what we are. You can confirm this by looking at your thoughts, feelings and bodily sensations and ask yourself ‘Can I say that this is what I am at this very moment?’ Am I this thought, or sensation?, or whatever u want to test out. Next notice that that knowingness which is knowing the experiences of the body is also knowing the world, ie: sights, sounds, smells, sensations. Is the knowing which is registering this apparent ‘outside’ world a different knowing then that which is registering the experiences of the body? or is it just one knowing? The whole point of this is to establish in our direct experience that for any other experience to be it must be known, something is there knowing it, and since all experiences fluctuate at one time or another, but our existence is not fluctuating and remains constant throughout we can from our looking say that we have to be this knowingness in essence because that is the only thing that remains constant throughout. Once this point is firmly established then we want to even get rid of this final boundary of the knowingness. The whole point of this is nonduality, the complete nonduality of experience. So we have established that the primacy of all experience is the knowingness, but now lets take it a step further and notice that the knowingness and whichever experience we are talking about arise together and are completley inseperable. No matter what experience we are talking about, thoughts, sensations, feelings, sights, sounds, smells, see if you can seperate the experience from the experiencer. It is all one. Once this is investigated, maybe even multiple times until a convinction naturaly arises, that energy of seeking or looking for something can just relax, because it is experientially seen and understood that no matter what arises it is all one substance or essence. A relaxtion happens and you can throw in the towel with this stuff and move on and enjoy the simplicity of everyday life.

  23. Experience is multiple. Millions of experiences come and go. The immediacy of all experiences is experiencing. Those who believe in me appear to be lost in experiences.
    In the experiencing concepts about ‘me’ proliferate into a story about me.

    There is no point to non duality – none whatsoever. That is the whole and the entire nature of non duality. The hook that everyone appears to get stuck on is a point called me but it does not exist. No one will believe it until they SEE it is true and then it is not a belief – it is ‘knowing’ and this knowing cannot be lost – it is already here, now. It is simply ignored by a preference for concepts.

    ……….
    There is an audio track on this site titled “What are you here for?” – The audio quality is not so good but in just over 3 minutes, enough is expressed to point at what needs to be recognised.

  24. Yes ofcourse there is no point to all this, its pointless to point. For ME lol, seeing the absence of any self center was a huge help, however for me this seeking energy still perpetuated itself, i was still running around trying to grasp something. So for me it was beneficial to evaluate the ‘positive’ aspect of this teaching, which we all heard statements as ‘consiousness is all there is’ all is one, one without a second, ect. For me to go through my experience and have an experiential understanding of how all experience is one seamless whole, really seemed to drain the energy from this seeking. The above post was just something that helped me as I was investigating this stuff, if it is of help to anyone else thats great, and if not thats fine to.

  25. ‘I’ see that all there is is experience-ing in this ‘now’ and even thoughts of past or future can only happen now. But the knowing here is of different ‘content’ than the knowing for ‘sunny’. Although ‘sunny’ only appears in the knowing ‘here’. But isn’t it naive to think that there isn’t a direct experienc-ing of sunny. I can say right now that there is direct experiencing here of arms and legs and a computer and you can probably confirm that there are different arms and legs and a different computer. Regardless, you confirming would have to be recognized by the awareness here that is aware of all the the thoughts feelings, body here, but again, just seems naive.

  26. what is reality or current perception or experience of life: the current sights, sounds, feelings of the body, thoughts, notice that it is just one existence, its the totality, whatever the current perception is, is the totality, now ask yourself where is this one, this I, to whom this totality of existence is happening to. Where is that central point of experience to which all other experiences seem to belong or are happening to. See if you can find that point and then ask the other questions.

  27. Notice that seeing is simply happening, sounds are simply being heard, feelings and sensations are happening, thoughts are happening, are you creating thoughts? try and create one. Hearts beating, lungs breathing, eyes blinking, maybe a twitch in the toe, body shifting around in the chair. Now ask yourself where exactly are you and what exactly are you doing?

  28. it doesn’t seem like there is any answer because any answer is just more conceptualizing. Maybe the point of the question is to just make you stop conceptualizing.

  29. Hey gunz, that statement is just an arising thought. Are you those thoughts? You can see that you are not any thought, everyone knows this, rather the assumption is that these thoughts actually belong to and ‘I’ or ‘me’ or self center. If we look at the language of this all, we never say statements such as ‘I am this thought, or I am this face, or I am this arm, or I am this body’, rather we say “this is my face, my hand, my body, or I just thought this, or that, or I think this statement means this, ect’ The I in each case is none of the things it lays claim to, so who or what is this I, or self center, and where is it? Where in our direct experience is this self center or I to whom these thoughts, feelings, the body, belong to?

  30. Anything anyone says is valid, an expression. Often an expression reveals some understanding. Opinions and learned concepts are not understanding – they often obscure clear understanding. Almost all spiritual teachings are full of erroneous beliefs and dogma. Sports fanatics are also full of dogma and erroneous belief. Looking from a mountain top at a city below one may observe very large crowds waiting to enter a sports arena. A nearby church may have a few waiting to get into the church. The size of the venues is very different. Religion, compared to Sport (which is a new religion of sorts), has a much less attendance record on any day of their scheduled ‘events’. What is the difference? Well the battle between good and evil is out in the open on the sports field. Opinions differ as to which team is good.
    In church, the good guy ‘God’ and the bad guy the ‘Devil’ are both hidden from view and the drama of it all is internalised. What makes religion more interesting is that the ‘minister’ or ‘priest’ is often revealed to be a bad guy. Oh the shame of it all.
    In Sport the battle is fought and it is over after an hour or two. In religion the battle goes on and on. Belief is the culprit in both ‘games’. It is all valid in the appearance of things. Who is to judge? With what shall one use to measure what is wrong and what is right? Everything can betray you at any moment except your true essence. It may be hidden from view but it is the only thing you are certain of.
    Eliminate all beliefs and what is left is naked existence – being.
    The mind games of spirituality or religion are a play of the elements. What is the witness of it all? Find out.

  31. It always comes back to the investigation… I can learn the words get them in the right order, delude ‘my’self I am making progress. Bypassing investigating the ‘me’, to set up a little platform to speak “I know what he is talking about”… Though who could be satisfied by ‘doing’ this?

  32. Nothing in this Universe as is it appears. Left contemplating simple pointers: Not two, ‘you’ can never work it out with the mind, the only way out of the mind is full stop.

  33. Next time you get into one of your seeking/grasping modes, trying to find an answer, work all these nonduality riddles out, just stop and go to the nearest mirror. Now have a look at what is happening in the reality of the situation. What is the current perception: Maybe your in a Room or bathroom, a wall, on that wall a mirror, in the mirror an appearance of a body. Just notice how the body is just hanging out, it may be sitting, standing or whatever, does it have any concern about enlightenment? Is it struggling trying to put all the little nonduality pointers together? So here is the reality or current perception: a room, a mirror, in that mirror an appearance of the body, and whatever else is going on, other sights, sounds, feelings,thoughts and sensations. In this reality, which is all that is, where is the seeking/searching one? see if you can find him/her. you may say, ‘yes its not the body who wants to find an answer, its ‘me’, or ‘i’ thats ‘in’ this body, what is that I, and where is it exactly? Does it have any substance or existence to it? Or is it just a fleeting thought? If its just a thought, then how could that ‘I’ possibly be what you are.

  34. everything in this universe is as it appears.

    door is door. dog is dog. a door is not a dog. a dog is a potential door.

    in one there is two,

    as if there were either.

    nothing in this universe is as it appears to me. that is the statement. it always comes back to the investigation. relentlessly.

  35. door is door because of it’s doorness?…. Nothing can be a thing in of itself… Every-thing is valid as an appearance, but it’s an appearance only… it’s not the essence.